Showing posts with label Ireland. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ireland. Show all posts

Wednesday, 11 January 2017

Iran: Hospitable and Hot

I can confirm that August is the wrong month to cycle through Iran! Hot as the flames of hell!

Our Donations page is still open until June if it tickles your fancy to donate to a cause which needs more focus in Ireland.

https://give.everydayhero.com/ie/bikebackhome

Grassy ass!

Tuesday, 22 November 2016

A Brief Round Up and a Thank You

So, that’s it. We have now biked back home.  We’re here, it’s all over, we made it!  We cycled home from South Korea.  The last few months seem to have gone by in somewhat of a blur, and all of a sudden it’s over.   Being back in Dublin, surrounded by all things familiar and comfortable, the rose-tinted glasses have been firmly affixed to our faces, remembering all the good things and times, while the difficulties have all conveniently slipped from our minds!  I’ve actually already left Dublin again and am now in the French Alps for the winter, where I’ve swapped my bike for a pair of skis.  Life on the bike seems like a dream, a different lifetime ago, and sometimes I find myself wondering, did I even do it?

We arrived into Dublin port on Saturday the 15th of October to a right hero’s welcome.  All our family, and loads of our friends, were there at the port waving banners and ready to cycle the last few kilometers with us up the quays to the city centre.  We couldn’t have asked for a better arrival home.  We left Holyhead in the rain but by the time Dublin was in sight the sun was shinning and the sky had totally cleared.  Cycling up the quays surrounded by familiar places and faces was a feeling I won’t forget in a hurry.  The magnitude of the journey, the long road home, slowing began to sink in and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t shed a tear or two as my little heart swelled with pride at what we’d achieved.

After the highs and lows of central Asia, followed by the intense heat of Iran in August, Turkey and beyond through Europe all seemed like a bit of a doddle.  Meeting my folks, who’d driven out from Dublin, in Turkey, helped us feel like we were almost home too - or at the very least, on the home straight!  Eager to get home by then, and with a slight cooling off of the weather in September, we gunned it and cycled from Greece to England without a day off! I had been dreading cycling through England if I’m honest, in much the same way that I hate flying through Heathrow – so close to home but still so far away, but the sun shone for us, the roads were quiet, the drivers were very respectful of bikes and the relief of finally being able to speak English without slowing down or gesticulating wildly was a very welcome change.  The availability of beans and sausages for brekkie was no small part of the enjoyment of the place either and the fact that we had friends and family dotted along the way didn’t hurt.  We very quickly adapted back to modern living with all the comforts we usually take for granted but had been so long without.  It wasn’t a hard transition let me tell you! 

And what next you might ask? Well, the French Alps have called, and we’ve answered! We’re off to work for a chalet company for the ski season while we consider our next move, and maybe even plan our next cycle! Our fundraising page is still open (https://give.everydayhero.com/ie/bikebackhome#/) and will remain so until January.  We have raised just over €24000 and are completely blown away by the support that we have received from everyone around us, be it in donations to our chosen charity, Jigsaw, or emotional support in the form of messages and kind words, or just by taking an interest in the two of us and our little adventure that was Bike Back Home.

Sunday, 28 August 2016

Tajikistan: Pamirs Part 1

The start of our climb to 4,655 meters through the Pamir Mountains

Turkish Delight

We haven't actually had any Turkish Delight yet, although we do hear very good things about it, but it was some delight crossing over the border from Iran and shedding that headscarf let me tell you.  There was a bin right next to the X-Ray machine that our bikes and bags had to go through which I gladly dumped my scarf into and had a little celebratory chuckle to myself.  I waited until I was outside and away from the border guards to shed the rest.  What a welcome to Turkey it was!

Our first view of Turkey, and where I took off my long legs and sleeves and felt pure freedom after the confines of the Iranian dress code

We've been here almost two weeks now and although the weather here is cooler, and significantly less humid, than in Iran, the cycling has been tougher than anticipated.  I suppose a quick glance at the topography of the country would have had me a bit more prepared for the mountainous terrain, but we don't usually do much of that, preferring to just get up and go and take it as it comes.

Friday, 1 April 2016

Inappropriate Saddle Positions and Floating Potato Angels

Inappropriate saddle positions, gammy knees, heavily dusted eyeballs, sudden and explosive meltdowns over melted chocolate, Delhi belly, – well not really but Xuzhuanglaozhaowanghe belly just doesn’t have the same ring to it – freezing temperatures, and a general waft of combined stinkiness have all been part of the experience up until now.

But what an experience it has been so far!

Taking a wee break as we entered the Liupan mountains

Wednesday, 23 March 2016

Answers to a Couple of Your Frequently Asked Questions

We've been getting a few questions fairly regularly so I thought I'd do my best to answer some of them in a blog post.  Here it is!

So far is the trip living up to expectations? Or did you even have any expectations?
I’m not sure that we had many expectations, except that we were expecting to love it.  The two other (much smaller) bike tours we’ve done in the past we’ve really loved, so we were really looking forward to getting started.  Four years in Korea had been enough and we were both definitely ready to move on to something else so the combination of leaving Korea, moving onto something new and going back home made the build up pretty exciting.  I think it is living up to expectations so far, and more maybe.  People often focus on the potential hardships in a trip like this, saying things like ‘what if…’ and ‘what about…’ but they were never really thoughts we had ourselves.  The sense of freedom you get from pedaling yourself to your destination each day, which can be as far away or as close as you feel like, is very liberating.  Also, nothing has gone wrong so far, so there has been nothing to worry about or to try and fix, it’s just been a case of keep pedaling and eventually we’ll get home.  Every so often I think ‘Oh my god, we are going home!’ and I burst out into a big smile.  Life is good.  We eat, cycle and sleep.  We are constantly exposed to all manner of new things: sights; sounds; smells; tastes; and interactions.  What’s not to love?! I went off on a bit of a rant there but in short, yes, it is living up to expectations, we are having the time of our lives.

How far are you going each day? Are you taking breaks?
The rough plan is to cycle 100km per day for five days a week and have two rest days.  In reality, it hasn’t really been like that.  Firstly, the Korean leg was three days, all under 65km per day.  Then, leaving Qingdao, we also took our time and were slowed a bit by a sore knee (mine) and a dose of jippy belly (Nicks). We cycled about 80km for 4 days, and had two days off.  Then to make up time, and kilometers, we cycled about 660km over six days to get to Xi’an.  And now we're still here, four days later, having a grand 'ol time for ourselves before getting back into it tomorrow.  Now that we’ve started to cover 100km a day, I’d imagine that we will continue to do that unless the terrain or weather stops us but I’m pretty sure it will more or less balance out in the long run.  Five days on and two days off is the aim though. Oh and also, we are pretty strict about taking breaks throughout the day, stopping every hour for about ten minutes for a quick snack and a bit of a rest for our bums and thighs!

Do you think you are on schedule? Or ahead? Or behind? Or do you even have a schedule?
I’m not really too sure to be honest, we haven’t given it much thought.  The total distance from Qingdao to the Kazak border is about 4800km so, on the above schedule, that would be 48 days cycling plus 18 days rest, or 66days total.   We’ll also have about a weeks wait for the Kazak visa when we get to Urumqi, which will bring it up to 72 days.  We have a 90 day visa for China though and I’m quite sure we’ll use it.  This country is fascinating and it’d be a shame to rush on to the next place just to get home faster.  We aren’t under any great pressure to be finished.  In fact, I’d say as we get further into the journey we’ll want to slow down, to make it last longer, to delay the return to life off the bikes!

How have you and Nick been getting on?
The same as we always do!  We were two eejits before we started Bike Back Home, and we are still two eejits now.  We’ve both had one meltdown so far, over stupid things, and I’m sure we’ll have plenty more but they are all part of it.  As long as we take it in turn to meltdown we’ll be fine!! Mostly though it's business as usual, lots of laughing and joking!

Are you knackered all the time?
No actually, not half as bad as you might think.  In saying that, each day, by the time 4pm or 5pm rolls around we are both ready to be done for the day.  A quick meal and straight to sleep at the end of the day but when the alarm goes off then at 6am the following morning we’re usually raring to go again and it always feel so nice to be back in the saddle and on our way.

What have the locals been like in the places you’ve been to so far?
Amazingly friendly.  I’m writing this from Xi’an which is a massive city, so obviously things are a little different here but in general the people we’ve encountered have been inquisitive and exceptionally friendly, often times going out of their way to help us and always doing their best to interpret the gibberish we are speaking and the wild gestures that we are chucking about the place to explain what it is we are doing and where we are going.  It makes a big change from what we were used to in Korea where the norm is to keep your face as expressionless as possible and try not to show any emotion.

What has the sanitation (toilets) been like?
It’s varied pretty wildly.  There have been a surprising number of public toilets all along the way.  They are, however, a bit of a lucky dip! Some are (almost) sparklingly clean, and others are beyond description.  The bathrooms in the guest houses and hotels we’ve been staying in have been similarly varied, although, never bad enough to warrant not using as can be the case with the public ones.  The one common theme, no matter the look, is the smell, which can be pretty overpowering and wouldn’t exactly encourage you to bring your book into the bathroom with you!

How do you manage to find places to stay each night?
With difficulty at first but we’ve since learnt the Chinese characters for hotel and inn which are pretty easy to spot.  There seem to be tons of places to stay in each town, no matter how small, and we generally just chose one that’s fairly central.

How are you communicating? Is there much English spoken?
No, there's hardly any English spoken.  We gesticulate and we use a translator we downloaded onto our phones. Also, before we left, we made some flash cards with basic sentences on them in Chinese, Cyrllic, Persian and Turkish so we use them too.  We’ve both been learning a bit of mandarin on Memrise in the evenings too, which has been really helpful.

Did you go and see the Terracotta Warriors while in Xi’an?
Yeah, we did.  We were a bit put off by tales of huge crowds, and like every other major tourist attraction in the world, we knew that we’d never get to see it any better than we already had on the internet or T.V but they were actually very impressive and I’m glad we went.  We went early in the morning, and on a Monday, which I think helped with the crowds because when we were leaving it was much busier than it had been when we arrived.  It costs 150RMB (€20), a price that probably excludes the vast majority of the Chinese population, which we didn’t like.  Fine for tourists, but such an amazing historical find like that should be accessible to everyone. 

What’s the next leg of the route like? Will there be many big cities or will you be more rural from now on? How long will it take to get there?
The next major destination is Urumqi in the far North West of the country. Our route to get there will be about 2700km and take us well over a month.  When we leave Xi’an we will be heading through some pretty big mountains, and will have at least one pass over 2500m.  After a city called Zhangye, we’ll be heading almost directly north to the Mongolian border before turning west and coming into Urumqi from the north. We’ll be following the G312 almost the whole way from here to Urumqi and once we get there we’ll be nearly ⅓ of the way home!  As far as cities go, I’m not too sure.  Google maps so far has been almost no help when it comes to town or city size and places that look like they will be little backwaters turn out to be fully fledged cities so who knows.  I can’t imagine that we won’t pass some big cities though, we’ve passed so many so far, I doubt it's going to change now into wild open expanses with no big urban centres.

What about China in general? What's it like?
Where to start....China is mesmerising.  It is both what you'd expect in terms of the amount of people, the level of construction, the industry, the obvious environmental damage, the food, the general exoticness of the place but it is also full of totally unexpected things, so much so that I often have to remind myself that I'm in China.  It's unlike anywhere else I've been in Asia.  It is both very modern and very underdeveloped. There are literally all sorts of people, of different ethnicities and cultures, different dress, different mannerisms. Actually that seems to be the general feel of things...there is just more in each category.  For example, on the roads you would expect the usual bikes, motorbikes, cars, vans and trucks but there are also a whole manner of different vehicles.  There are trikes, three wheelers (like tuk tuks of Thailand), things that we call pope mobiles ('cause that's what they look like), three wheeled vans or pick up trucks that carry so much stuff that they look in danger of toppling over and you'd wonder why on earth they are built with three wheels instead of four.

The roads in China are amazingly good. But having just said that, they can be a little like the public toilets in that you don't quite know what you'll get until you see it.  They can be smoothy surfaced with a wide hard shoulder/lane for small vehicles for kilometres and then, out of nowhere, can turn to a muddy, stoney, bumping track.

There is industry and signs of 'modern advancement' everywhere you look.  So many chimneys, so many factories, so much construction.  All that means it is also by far the dustiest, dirtiest place I have ever been.  After a day on the road, we are filthy, covered from head to toe in black, grimy dust.

Owning a big, fancy-looking, western-made car seems to be a sign that you've made it.  Even in the smallest towns, houses that look like they wouldn't have hot water can often have a brand new VW Passat, or the likes, parked outside.  Big SUV's with tinted windows and aggrressive drivers aren't uncommon either but often it doesn't make sense, the amount of them means owning such a car can't  just be the reserve of the wealthy.  It must be pretty easy to get a serious amount of credit here and people don't seem shy of jumping on the bandwagon and trying to pull themselves up the social ladder that the entire world seems to be scrambling up in a desperate attempt to who know's what! The Chinese seem to be no exception in that regard.

The damage being done to the environment is overwhelming.  Anybody who thinks that the actions of humans isn't having a drastic effect on the world around us should be forced to take a trip to China and experience what unchecked economic growth and industry can, and does, do.  I don't know how many river beds we have cycled over that have been bone dry.  Sometimes they are small, steep valleys that should have raging torrents flowing down them, and sometimes they are wide, meandering valley floors that should have huge, slow moving, giants of rivers in them, but all are empty, or reduced to a minor trickle.  What's even more shocking is that they have obviously been this way for years because the river beds are now being cultivated.  There are also houses and roads in them, even factories.  The Chinese aren't expecting the water to start flowing there again any time soon.

Most of what I have just typed seems overwhelmingly negative but that hasn't been our general impression of the country.  In fact, it's been quite the opposite.  We are loving being here.  The people are so friendly, the food is delicious, and most importantly, the truck drivers (of which there are thousands) give us oodles of room when they overtake us! It is constantly interesting, with strange and unusual things every which way we look.

I could go on and on but at the same time it's also hard to know what to say (write!), there is so much.  We have seen so much, and so much that doesn't make sense to us and our western viewpoints of the world.  We are both wading through books on modern China at the moment in an attempt to understand more of what we are seeing and experiencing all the while hoping that we will meet someone sooner or later with decent enough English so that we can get a Chinese perspective on all we are experiencing.
   

Saturday, 12 March 2016

Where Are We Now!

To keep you all up to date on our whereabouts, I've created a new map under the "Our Route" tab that has the locations of where we've stopped each night so far.  It won't be possible to update this everyday, but we'll do our best to keep it as up to date as possible.

Saturday, 20 February 2016

4 Days to Go and the Excitement is Palpable!

I got a text from the Korean Association for Children with Leukemia and Cancer (KACLC) the other day.  KACLC is the charity that I sent my hair too after it got chopped off in the pub on January 30th.  The text message was in Korean so I translated it.  Google translate is notorious for its dubious Korean-English translations and I think my text message may have suffered!  It translated the message as follows: "Guardian cherub! Thank you! Your hair has been well received in the Association."  I was pretty chuffed to be called a guardian cherub mind you!

Text Message from KACLC

The text came on the same day we went to Seoul to collect out passports from the Chinese Visa Agency.  We had everything crossed we'd be given the 90 days we'd asked for, and secretly pretty hopeful not having heard anything from them since the day we applied.  We had prepared ourselves for a long day of queuing and waiting but when we got there, there was no one else waiting so we were seen immediately.  Without any fuss the girl handed over our two passports and asked us to check them. 90 Days. Bingo! We handed over 55,000won each (about €40) for the privilege and went on our merry way! Delighted!  

Wohoo! Chinese Visa's are Go!

To celebrate the first real step towards hitting the road we decided to go for lunch and a few beers!  Before lunch I popped into Innisfree (a Korean cosmetics chain, similar to The Body Shop) to buy a few things and while I was in there I bumped into a guy, Sam, that we'd worked with in our first year here in Daejeon.  Given that we were in Seoul, a city with over 15 million people in it, and that we were over 140km away from where we'd met originally, it only added to the excitement of the day, feeling very much as if our time here in Korea has come full circle and that the timing to head off couldn't be more perfect.

The two of us and Sam after our random meeting in Gangnam!

As well as going to Seoul to collect our passports, this week has been spent furiously packing up our apartment.  Separating things into different groups: stuff to be given away; stuff to ship home; stuff to pack onto our bikes; stuff to sell and various miscellaneous piles when we just weren't sure what category to fit it into! The place looks like a bomb went off but it's pretty organised chaos, at least to our eyes it is!  We are planning on meeting a few friends tonight for some farewell drinks and general banter and we're hoping to have everything more or less done by then.

Just some of the clothes, shoes and household items that we've donated over the last few days!

We spent the guts of yesterday afternoon in the post office, sending things back home (thanks Mum for providing the storage space!).  A friend with a car very kindly offered us a lift down, and thank god he did because I really don't know how we would've done it without him.

2 bikes, 4 boxes of 'stuff', one box of spare tyres (!) and a poster tube!

Nick's in the middle of plotting our route up to Incheon now as I type, and then after a bit of lunch, we'll hopefully get the last few things packed into our panniers.  Then we can switch off and enjoy the last couple of days without rushing around like mad lunatics.  Now that our departure date is so close, it's very hard to describe how we're feeling.  We're oscillation between disbelief and excitement  for the most part, with the odd moment of panic on my behalf when the thoughts of cycling up those Pamir mountains come to mind.  They are months off though, and I'll be fitter then and more able for them.  That's what I'm telling myself anyway!

Sunday, 14 February 2016

10 days to go....

I landed back in Korea on Thursday morning after a lovely few days in the sun!  After meeting Nick in central Seoul, we set about booking the flights we needed for the Chinese Visa Application.  After years of living here and being well used to the language and cultural barriers that exists in all tasks, no matter how trivial, we had ourselves well built up for a difficult day.  It turned out to be surprisingly easy and the first travel agency we tried was massively helpful and did exactly what we were asking without even charging us!  We were in and out with what we needed in under 15 minutes.

We went back to the hostel to go over our application documents to make sure everything was in order.  "Eh Nick, where are all the rest of the documents we need? Where's the white envelope clearly marked "Chinese Visa Application?"  "The what?" came his reply.  Disaster.

Luckily for us our neighbour Paul was at home and he has spare keys to our apartment.  He took the envelope to the bus station and put it on the next bus to Seoul, paying the driver for his efforts!  Panic averted.  At this, Nick let out a visible sigh of relief because otherwise it would have meant a pretty long day for him - two hours on the train back home, collect the envelope and then two hours back up to Seoul again.

It wasn't exactly the stress free, nice evening before our one year wedding anniversary, welcome home that I was anticipating.  (I may have thrown a bit of a strop!).  Anyway all's well that ends well and the next morning, after a few minor hiccups at the embassy our application was accepted and now we wait, and hope, that when we go to collect it on Thursday we'll have been granted a 90 day visa!

Oh, I just realised that I never posted any pictures of our Head Shave Event in Daejeon so here they are....

Before the Shave - over 40cm of hair in that pony tail!

The crowd on the night, a great turn out by all accounts!

Conor won the honours to chop off my plait!

Gordon had an inordinate amount of fun shaving my head!

Me not so sure that he really knows what he's doing!

The reality starting to set in for me!



The new hair!

Friday, 29 January 2016

One gigantic list, slowly getting smaller!

This week has been spent in a contact state of motion.  We have lists coming out our ears of things to do so we've been steadily working through them before I head off to the Philippines on Monday, leaving poor ol Nick here to hold the fort!

We have lists of things to buy, things to organise for our fundraiser in Daejeon tomorrow, things to check on the bikes, things to ship home, things to sell, vaccinations to get, visas to organise, people to contact...and god knows what else.

Once I get back from the Philippines we'll have to go straight to the Chinese Embassy and apply for our visa.  With over 4000km to cover in China alone we want to get as long a visa as possible, preferably 90 days.  The embassy here is renowned for only issuing 30 day visas but another couple of cycle tourists, The Twisting Spokes, managed to secure themselves a three month visa so we're hopeful!

To apply, you have to have proof of entering and exiting the country (i.e. flight tickets), a detailed itinerary of where you intend on going, accommodation bookings for several of your destinations, as well as the usual application form and copies of your passport!  That's all grand except that we don't have flights, we plan on camping and therefore don't have accommodation booked and our route isn't one the Chinese authorities are mad about tourists taking!  So we've faked it.  All of it.  We have written out a detailed, but untrue, 85 day itinerary, we've booked accommodation along the way (that can be cancelled once we get the visa!) and we are looking into travel agents that will provisionally book us flights that can then be cancelled once the application has been completed!  All a bit of a rigmarole, but with the help of the Twisting Spokes - how they went about it, the itinerary they used etc - we're pretty hopeful that we'll get a 90 day visa.  Even a 60 day one would be grand because it's pretty easy to extend it once you're in the country.

The next hurdle then is figuring out how to ship home our road bikes.  After hours and hours of enquiring with various shipping and courier companies, it now looks like we can just take them to a normal post office and as long as the box they are in is less than 20kg it should be fine.  The girl Nick was talking to said it would cost ₩60,000 (about €45), which if it's true seems like a really good deal.  Now all we have to do is dissemble them, box them up and get them to the post office.

For now though, I'm off to wash, dry and de-tangle my hair one last time before it gets the chop tomorrow!  I have an envelope addressed and ready to go to a Cancer Charity here that I'll pop my pony tail into before the rest all gets buzzed off, turning me into a human tennis ball!  Photo's and hopefully a small snippet of video footage will be up here early next week.  I'm just glad I'll be on a beach somewhere and won't have to see them!

Monday, 25 January 2016

Only 5 days left with a full head of hair for Stef!

It's the start of the another week here in Korea now and it's also the last full week with all my hair! 

Nick, Christy and Stuart (two friends of ours here), are also going to be losing some hair, having volunteered to have their legs waxed for added banter!

We've got some great raffle prizes lined up for the night to so it's shaping up to be a fun-filled event! 

If you're in Korea please stick it in your diaries and bring as many friends as possible!! We hope to see as many of you there as possible but if not and you'd like to donate anyway here's the link: http://www.mycharity.ie/event/bikebackhome

Wednesday, 20 January 2016

Donations have been rolling in this week, so a big thank you to everyone who has already donated.  We have over €1400 now and we're starting to feel very optimistic about reaching our €30,000 target! Also, a big thank you to all those who are doing what they can to spend the word, of our cycle and chosen charity, either via word of mouth or by sharing our event and blog via Facebook etc.

We've had a couple of great things happen this week.  The first was a promise of a very generous donation from The Irish Association of Korea.  They are a non-profit voluntary organisation that promotes Irish culture in Korea and we contacted them initially just to get some help with organising our fundraiser.  As well as pledging to donate money they are also helping us on a couple of other fronts which should result in some more media coverage in the coming weeks and months.  All very exciting!  Once we have some more concrete details we'll be sure to get it all up here but keep your eyes and ears peeled for any word of us at home in the papers or on the radio, you just never know!  We could be famous yet!

For the moment though, its all systems go on the last bit of organising here.  Still some last little things to buy, routes to ponder, the apartment to pack up, vaccinations to get, money to exchange, visas to get....and a head to shave!

Friday, 15 January 2016

Stef's Charity Head Shave

In order to raise more awareness of what we are doing and to get the ball rolling on donations, I've (it's Stef here!) decided to shave my head!

We're having a fundraiser here in Korea before we leave (we're now aiming to leave from our apartment on the 24th of February) and we thought it might draw a bit more of a crowd if we raffled off the right to shave my head on the night, so that's what we're doing!  Nick, and two other poor unfortunate friends of ours, have also said they'll allow someone to wax their legs for a laugh (and hopefully more money)!


We're having the event here in Daejeon on Saturday the 30th of January which means in 15 days time I'm going to look something similar to the above picture! I can't wait!

To donate, just follow the link by clicking here and donate as little or as much as you can.  And, just to remind you all again, all money raised is going straight to Headstong and we won't be using a penny of it to pay for our trip home.

Monday, 11 January 2016

Snowy Cycle to Work! Harden up damn it!

A slightly frostier cycle to work. Hardening up for the - hopefully unfounded - similar weather conditions prediction for around the time we leave.


Friday, 30 October 2015

Cycle to Work

30 seconds of my 2 minute cycle through campus to work of a fresh autumnal mornin' wha?!?! (www.bike-back-home.blogspot.com -- Cycling from Korea to Ireland for mental health awareness - setting off March 2016) Headstrong - The National Centre for Youth Mental Health


Wednesday, 28 October 2015

An Incredibly Generous Donation

Waking up this morning to a notification from http://www.mycharity.ie/event/bikebackhome saying that we'd received a donation of €500 over night was incredible.  The momentum is really starting to pick up now and with only 18 weeks until we pedal off from Hongseong, the reality of what we are undertaking is really starting to hit home.  It's all very very exciting!